Prepare yourself for a captivating conversation with Marcus Leitgeb, the head of R&D at AT&S, a global leader in the world of PCB and IC substrate manufacturing. We start by exploring AT&S's impressive manufacturing footprint that reaches from their homeland of Austria to China, Korea, and India.
Markus, with his 22 years of R&D experience, provides a unique perspective on the evolving dynamics of the PCB manufacturing market and how customer preferences shape the manufacturing landscape. Listen as he discusses Europe's technological advantage and how AT&S is capitalizing on it through innovative R&D, strategic partnerships, and collaborations with leading global customers. From challenges in recruitment to navigating the complex supply chain, this episode offers you a comprehensive understanding of the industry.
PCB@C-Level was generously hosted at productronica 2023 by Adeon technologies - learn more at https://www.adeon.nl
Like every episode of EMS@C-Level, this one was sponsored by global inspection leader Koh Young (https://www.kohyoung.com) and Adaptable Automation Specialist Launchpad.build (https://launchpad.build).
You can see video versions of all of the EMS@C-Level pods on our YouTube playlist.
Speaker 1:
Hello, I'm Philip Stoughton. I'm on the Adion Technologies Boo, the product Tronica 2023, and I'm joined by Marcus from AT&S. Marcus, start by introducing yourself and what you do at AT&S and give me a bit of an overview of AT&S's global footprint.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, hello thank you very much for the opportunity to come here. My name is Marcus Leitgeb and I'm leading the R&D department in AT&S for microelectronics packaging. Basically since more than 22 years I'm in R&D department and I really enjoy the work. At&s is an Austrian-based company with a very strong history in the PCB manufacturing and recently well, let's say recently, 10 years ago we also joined now the IC substrate business. So we really have very strong legs in manufacturing printed circuit board and IC substrate. So we have a global footprint in the manufacturing. We have manufacturing in China, in Shanghai and Chongqing, as well as in India and Korea, but we still have also manufacturing in Austria. So we are and this is what we are doing is we are focusing on high-end products in both areas IC substrates and PCBs and yeah, it's quite amazing to work for this company in this very competitive area.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it's a very fascinating market and you know there are a few dynamics going on. And you talk about the global footprint. We've talked a lot to European PCB manufacturers recently and talked about the critical nature of printed circuit boards and certain industries wanting their circuit boards made here in Europe. You have a global footprint so you're able to make decisions about where those boards for some of your customers are made. Are you seeing any change in their thoughts as to where they want stuff made?
Speaker 2:
Yes, indeed, I think one of the reasons why we went to China was that also our customers were going in the 2000s to China and we had to follow them, so it was basically not possible to support them out of Europe. Now, of course, we see a different way that also some customers want to go away from China. This is also why we did our latest investment now also in Malaysia, for example, but nevertheless we always had manufacturing outside of China and the supply chain, as you said, is really critical because having, let's say, not enough competitors even here in Europe, it's really difficult and not only to get the supply chain for materials, processes, tools, but also for the workforce. So if you're the only one offering these jobs, it's really difficult to get people and to hold people, so it's very challenging at the end.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it is a challenge. One of the areas that Europe can perhaps have an advantage is in terms of technology, and you're very much involved in that kind of leading-edge R&D development. Do you see that as something that Europe can use to separate itself and to make it more competitive?
Speaker 2:
Of course. I think it's very, very important to be one step ahead. To be just competitive in terms of cost is very difficult with Asia. So this is why we always say we maybe have the advantage to combine our brain power that we have in Europe with our manpower that we have in Asia, and at the end the very positive thing is in Europe we have a very strong partnership, also with universities. So we really always try to anticipate our customers' pain points and come up with a solution to support them.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and I think those technologies become really important, and it becomes not just important for your customers point of view, but when you're recruiting talent. They want to know they're doing something different, something new, something innovative every day.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yes, and I think the very good thing is that we are really working with the leading customers in the world. So this is really giving us the opportunity to develop the next things which come on the market, and electronics is getting more important. As I said, we already had the opportunity in the past to work with very big mobile phone makers where we introduced HDI technology, and now we have the opportunity in the ICI substrate world also to work with the leading M and Foundry companies together to work on these packaging solutions, and this, at the end, gives you the advantage that you really maybe can be one step ahead of your competitors.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and I think what it also potentially gives you is that, you know, is a greater share of the bill of materials and an opportunity to scale. When you look at those companies that do now want perhaps some of their more of their stuff manufactured in Europe, are they in specific industries? Are they more in Millero, in particular?
Speaker 2:
areas. No, I think we, we serve the full industry. So all our products is really high volume products. Really, is it in automotive area, industrial area, medical or, as I said, in computing area and, of course, in the variables which is, let's say, a major part of our PCB coming out of our plants in China? I think we always try to go into a volume because it's not about, let's say, technology only, but you need some kind of a business behind to fill your lines.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, absolutely makes sense when you look at your global footprint. Do you have a strategy where you you know you build out a line in Austria and then you you repeat that line elsewhere, or or is it kind of more of a horses for courses?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's changing again. So we had this concept in the past. So Shanghai was a copy of of Austria plant in Hinterberg, and then of course the technologies were developing in different ways. Yeah, so the Shanghai plant was more really going for variable, variable equipment, so really very thin boards, hci technology at the leading edge. In Austria we were focusing more on automotive and industrial area, so it was not really comparable anymore in terms of technology, similar processes, but not the same. Now we are, we are, we are doing it again like like we did this in 20 years ago, because we are building this R&D center in Austria which is for IC substrates. But the plan is then to really develop the process in Austria and then roll it out to the plants, either in either in, let's say, in Austria, where we also have a small volume manufacturing, or maybe to Chongqing or maybe to Culem. So this is again some kind of a going back to the roots.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it's really interesting, isn't it? You need some manufacturing with proximity to design, but you need a global footprint to deal with your global customers and the high volumes Fascinating industry. Fascinating discussion. Thank you so much for talking to me, marcus, and I hope you enjoy the rest of the show and we can talk again soon. Thank you. Yeah, thank you.