EMS@C-LEVEL
As Forbes, Entrepreneur, Fast Company and SCOOP writer, Philip Stoten, continues to talk to EMS (Electronic Manufacturing Services) executives he learns more about their individual and collective experiences and their expectations for their own businesses and for the entire electronic manufacturing industry.
EMS@C-LEVEL
Redefining Transportation: Exploring EVs and Automotive with Indium's Brian O'Leary at Apex 2024
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Dig into the future of automotive innovation with Brian O'Leary, Global Head of e-Mobility & Infrastructure at Indium Corporation, as we explore the complexities and competition of the electric vehicle market. We also dig into trends like software-defined vehicles and how a simple download could revamp the entire driving experience, complete with subscription-based features that evolve long after a car has left the showroom.
We tackle the challenges and triumphs from the freezing temperatures in Scandinavia to the automotive production powerhouses of China. Brian elaborates on the trends in EV adoption and the staggering pace at which Chinese automotive prowess is reshaping the landscape, threatening to leave Western legacy manufacturers behind. Just as we are seeing a movement away from China in many sectors, we are seeing dominance in the automotive sector.
Brian and I also explore the importance of reliability in the solutions provided by Indium Corporation and, indeed, the hole electronic manufacturing industry.
EMS@C-Level is hosted by global inspection leaders Koh Young (https://www.kohyoung.com) and Global Electronics Association (https://www.electronics.org)
You can see video versions of all of the EMS@C-Level pods on our YouTube playlist.
Hello , I'm Philip Stoughton . I'm at Apex 2024 on the Coyoung booth . I'm joined by Brian O'Leary from Indium Corporation . Brian , pleasure to talk to you . You're seen as the expert in EVs , but it's actually the whole automotive market that you're looking at for , for indium and and studying , and the market's just moving so fast . There's so much change happening internationally , so much change happening with drivetrains , so much change happening with the technology that is in cars . Feels like we're in a bit of a hiccup phase with evs , but everything else seems to be powering on . What are the biggest trends you're seeing at the moment ?
Speaker 2Well , first to just say a little bit of a hiccup . I think . What's happening is a lot of EV companies have sold their shareholders and their boards of directors . That we're going to sell X number of vehicles . Well , guess what ? The market is becoming exceptionally competitive and they're not grabbing the share or getting the orders that they expected . That by no means means it's slowing down . As a matter of fact , it's slowing down a bit in terms of sales per EV manufacturer . But if you look at the overall market , it's still growing and it's growing much more rapidly than combustion-based vehicles . As far as technological trends , all the buzz is software defined vehicles .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's interesting Talk to me about how that looks . It's basically basing a vehicle on a platform and then new generations are really just downloaded from the cloud as software .
Speaker 2So software defined vehicles is still kind of a nebulous term , but generally what you can think of it as is an architecture that has been somewhat bifurcated . Hardware is built kind of independently from the software . In the old days the hardware was built and the software was just something you kind of added on . You had machine language , weren't into chips , that's all changed . Kind of added on . You had machine language , weren't into chips , that's all changed . You know NVIDIA , snapdragon or Qualcomm . You know high power chips are driving , adas , autopilot . You know all these functions .
Speaker 2But what's also interesting is it enables for updates , and Tesla was really the pioneer of over the air updates . It allows for the vehicle to have continuous improvement after it's left the factory floor . For the automotive maker it allows them to monetize new features like subscriptions . We're all hooked on subscriptions . So it could be a new feature in the vehicle that has a mechanical element , like you know . You could say like rear wheel steering . You know , maybe you have to pay extra money to have that enabled , otherwise it's shut off . I mean this goes on and on and on and on . Or maybe it's if it's an electric vehicle . You know , if you get this feature you'll increase your charging time by 10 minutes , that kind of thing .
Speaker 1Okay . So a lot of features being added there , differences in terms of geography , as I was in scandinavia recently and I was blown away by how many evs there were on the road , especially when I'd been reading that cars in new hampshire weren't working because it was a really cold winter . They seem to be able to do it in the arctic circle , so should be able to do it there . Um , there's a definite , definite change in geography , geographic trends there , but also in where those cars are manufactured . You mentioned China earlier . Hundreds of automotive companies , like five big , very successful ones that are buying traditional brands , owning companies like Volvo and so forth , that we think are being very European . That's a big change and that's a big shift in the supply chain . Is that something that's happened quickly and is that something that you see continuing ?
Speaker 2It's happened in breathtaking speed . If you look at really most , if not all , western legacy automotive manufacturers , they should all be worried . They are worried . They're worried because the Chinese have been at this for some time . I mean , tesla obviously was the pioneer , but the chinese have put massive investments into their own domestic automotive uh manufacturing . A lot of them are full 100 ev . So they're not distracted between you know , I'm trying to support two or maybe even three different platforms . The focus is incredible and you know , because EVs for a large part are based on electronics . The barriers and we've talked about this before , the barriers of entry are relatively low from a historical perspective in automotive . So hundreds yes , there's , last count , over 400 EV manufacturers in China . A lot of them are not profitable , but there are a few that are rising to the top and , as we were discussing , some that are making exceptionally good product , winning awards in foreign auto shows . Everybody should be looking to the Chinese right now as to how the future is going to look .
Speaker 1You know , when we look at what they're doing in terms of their own vehicles , but they're doing parts for other vehicles as well . They're involved in the whole supply chain now . So there's a dependency there on Chinese supply chains that we're actually seeing people move away from in other industries . It's a curious dynamic at the moment .
Speaker 2Supply chain is kind of a bugaboo in automotive . I mean , we all went through it with the chip shortage and it really had a pretty negative impact . You're seeing a greater deal , a greater degree of regionalization of the automotive industry . You look at any of the major players . They're putting footprints in major markets like China , india , throughout Southeast Asia and even Europe . And take the case of like BYD , which is in the news all the time as having recently surpassed the biggest EV manufacturer , and that being Tesla . They set up manufacturing in Indonesia . They got a plant going up in Hungary . There's talk about India . They were in Mexico about a month ago scouting out a location . So they're serious . They're looking to have a global footprint and I think anybody and it's an old model , I mean all the big legacy guys have done that as well . But to be successful , you have to be able to locally source the components , the inputs into the vehicle to be competitive .
Speaker 1Yeah , and then they have to be both global but also agile at the same time . It's that speed that's really important and , as you say , I think we're used to a cycle in internal combustion of new models every seven years . It's probably every seven weeks or seven months in the EV market because it's moving much faster . Indium , don't hire you to do this just for fun , because they want to learn about those markets . They're doing it because they want to be well informed as to what that industry needs in terms of technology . What do you , as you look into what's going on in the industry ? What does that mean in terms of soldering and the products that you have to produce ?
Speaker 2I'd say one word , it's reliability . You know , since we've been talking about the case of China , I think this is a good example . You've got a lot of brands that don't have really any brand recognition , like BYD . I think a lot of people have still yet to even hear of the company . I think a lot of people have still yet to even hear of the company . To be successful in a foreign market , you pretty much cannot have field failures . Why ? Because well , first of all , you don't have the network of dealerships and repair facilities , a lot of markets . You don't have people who are skilled or trained on fixing vehicles .
Speaker 2I'll give a great example SAIC's MG , iconic British brand , owned by the Chinese , is going through a bit of some trauma right now , or drama , I should say , within the UK market , because there's vehicles that have failures . They don't have a means to fix them , or at least fix them in a reasonable way . And you know how quick you can destroy a brand . It only takes one person to tell 10 other people that , hey , this isn't working out great . Probably more expletives in that statement . So I think for and it's not just a lesson for new entrants , but it's also lessons for the existing legacy guys . I mean they're struggling as well with field failures and issues , and it really , I think , stems from the fact that most of these companies have a skilled labor force trained on mechanical engineering , have a skilled labor force trained on mechanical engineering . Now , to be successful in EVs , you not only have to have electrical engineering , you have to have battery science and chemistry and software . So these are all new disciplines within the automotive industry and it's a tough struggle .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's a complete pivot for the industry , in fact , isn't it ? It's a complete change in their skill set . They're changing their business models . Sales models are changing . There's a lot more direct their skill set . They're changing their business models . Sales models are changing . There's a lot more direct-to-consumer sales . It's a very dynamic reorganizing supply chain and it's going to have an impact everywhere , including for suppliers like you at Indium . And , as you say , reliability has always been the watchword for the industry , but it has to be reliability in electronics now . I think what's interesting from a consumer point of view is my behavior has definitely changed in terms of when I'm looking at a new vehicle and technology , whether it's because it's EV or whether it's in an internal combustion . The technology inside the car has become a key part to what that buying decision is . That's a big change , isn't it ?
Speaker 2You know it's funny you say that . You talk to any veteran automotive professional and they'll tell you we don't like to put tech in the vehicle because it's something that can break Because of reliability . You're just adding complexity . That is yet another aspect of this industry that's turned on its head , and I think it was . You had mentioned Volvo . It was Polestar , same group . They did a survey of American consumers . It's been a couple of years now . But what are the main reasons you buy an EV ? And they have things like saving the world to reducing the amount of energy , to yada , yada , yada , and the number one reason that at least this polling were buying an EV was for the tech . They want the gizmos and a lot of people you talk to Tesla owners , they love their Teslas because of the tech . The tech is outstanding and that is the future . But it kind of goes against the grain of automotive and , of course , the more stuff you add in , the more complexity . It's things that can go wrong and that's part of the struggle of this industry .
Speaker 1So , reliability becomes a bigger factor . Brian , always a reliable source of information . Thanks for stopping by to chat and look forward to talking again soon . Thank you , all the best .