EMS@C-LEVEL
As Forbes, Entrepreneur, Fast Company and SCOOP writer, Philip Stoten, continues to talk to EMS (Electronic Manufacturing Services) executives he learns more about their individual and collective experiences and their expectations for their own businesses and for the entire electronic manufacturing industry.
EMS@C-LEVEL
Electronica 24: Dirk Stans on Navigating the European Electronics Industry with Innovation and Collaboration
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Join us as we uncover the complex dynamics of the European electronics industry with Dirk Stans from Eurocircuits. What if the key to thriving through geopolitical shifts lies in a robust balance between prototype development and volume production? Dirk shares how Eurocircuits has harnessed a data-first strategy, utilizing digital twins to revolutionize design processes, resulting in substantial time and cost savings. Discover how their emphasis on precise data and right-first-time accuracy has propelled impressive growth in their assembly business. This conversation offers an in-depth look at the ongoing digital transformation and the pivotal role of technical data management in driving industry success.
However, the conversation doesn't stop there. We delve into the urgent need for a unified European response to global challenges like energy transition and market integration. Can the European Union effectively compete with economic giants without cohesive collaboration? Dirk illuminates the critical role of industry in sustaining local economies and funding social infrastructure, while highlighting the persistent shortage of skilled workers in regions like Flanders and Germany.
With initiatives like the Budapest Declaration and the influence of industry advocacy groups like the IPC, there's a growing awareness of the need to prioritize industrial development within the EU. Tune in for a comprehensive discussion on how European collaboration can forge a resilient future in the global market.
EMS@C-Level at electronica 2024 was hosted by IPC (https://www.ipc.org/)
EMS@C-Level is hosted by global inspection leaders Koh Young (https://www.kohyoung.com) and Global Electronics Association (https://www.electronics.org)
You can see video versions of all of the EMS@C-Level pods on our YouTube playlist.
Hello, I'm Philip Sturgeon. I'm here at Electronica24 and I'm joined by Dirk Stans from Eurosex. Dirk, I almost forgot what year it was there 2024. Absolutely, 2024. 2024, a year of all kinds of political disruption, geopolitical change. There's a lot going on. How has that affected your industry and how has that affected the way you think of the position of the European industry in that increasingly, as well.
Speaker 2Well, first of all, philip we need to stay persistent.
Speaker 1We do.
Speaker 2Just the thing about 2024, where we are now, is that it's almost 2025. There you go, it's almost gone. It's almost 2025. There you go, it's almost gone, it's almost gone. I think 2024 was a difficult year for the industry, and I think during this week we saw the presentation of Dieter Weiss. He explained it in great detail, what the problem was, and I think he was absolutely right. It's a self-inflicted situation for the biggest part, but you need to make the differentiation between people that are dealing with prototypes, like ourselves, and, of course, people that do mass production. For them, it was worse. For us it was also less pleasant, I would say, but not as dramatic as it was and you feel there is still a certain price in the market.
Speaker 2I mean, yes, we do a small bit less prototypes only 5% and if you look at the assembly side of things assembling prototypes there you see that people are still under stress of having to do a lot themselves because that thing is growing like coal from our side. So, yes, there's still a lot going on and that makes me hopeful. That's also why I said it's almost 2025.
Speaker 1Yeah, so you're looking forward to the new gap? Yeah, and see what the trends are there. It's going to be really interesting to see. What I think is fascinating when I talk to you is you have a foot in the camp of the printed circuit board industry and you have a foot in the camp of the EMS industry, exactly when you look at 2024, how much differentiation between how they both performed, or were they pretty much parallel?
Speaker 2Well, the bare-barred, as I said, is 5% less, but the assembly is booming. We grow more than 30% in that area. That shows me one thing. That is that hardware designers are still under stress because what they were doing before manually they now outsource to us, and that is a good thing. We do it in a professional, industrial way. Everything is done on professional assembly lines. Meantime we have 11 of those. It's quite a good business for us.
Speaker 2But I think the main thing of what we do, different than a lot of other people, is in our vision it's always data first. And if you have the data first approach and you can make this circuit board and the assembly, you can look at the design for manufacturing in the total package. And that is something unique and that we do first. We first built a digital twin. Today the best word is digital twin. I've been saying already for more than 20 years we do virtual manufacturing, but that's old style, now it's called digital twin. So, yes, we make digital twin and that's old style, now it's called digital twin.
Speaker 2So, yes, we make, yeah, when, and that fairly bad and the assembly in combination, and that is both yeah, because then you can do things right first time. Yeah, not first time, right, philip, because that may be number 20. Yeah, you tried it. Yeah, so right first time, do things right from the first time, and that is our credo, and I think that is why we still do very well in the market, because the most costly aspect in doing the performance is not the components, it's not the board, no, it's actually the design, and we need to make the designer more performant, optimize the time that he uses for his design and making good things right first time, so we save time and money together and make us very competitive in the market.
Speaker 1Yeah, and if you can save iterations, you can save time for product. You're a very critical part of any company that's bringing you product. You're also doing quite a lot of work with respect to lobbying and supporting companies, associations, I think you're. Are you chair of the association?
Speaker 2Well, I have been the chairman of the Electronics Federation in Holland for the last seven years, and now I'm the president of the Technological Federation in Holland, which is called FHI.
Speaker 1Okay, and they're working throughout the electronic value chain.
Speaker 2Yes, exactly, so we have four major branches, and that is electronics, laboratory technology, industrial automation and building automation.
Speaker 1Okay, so automation is a big part of it and it's fascinating. Before we got on camera, you were listening to a presentation about digital transformation and I can see the frustration on your face. You've been doing that stuff for ages. You haven't really been using the same buzzwords that perhaps everybody else has, but we've really not had that much success in the industry with the whole industry 4.0 thing and there hasn't been a dividend. People are perhaps looking to AI to help us, but you've kind of been cranking this stuff out for decades almost.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's because we understood from the very beginning that if you want to make a product, you want to materialize something. You start from the data, the data that comes from the designer. So what is the most, the single, most important thing in your whole value chain? That is the data. Yeah, so you should be concerned about the technical content of the data. The bomb is one thing that has to do with sourcing and components, but looking at what components these are, what footprints these are, how the board is made, how it fits together, how do you make it producible, yeah, uh, that is something that starts with looking at the data from a technical viewpoint, and that is something that many, many, many people in the industry are simply forgetting.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's absolutely critical and, I think, getting at it. Are you looking at the use of AI?
Speaker 2Well, we do that on several levels, but all real small, dedicated projects how it can help us in interpretation of looking at a certain problem that might be in production, that might be in data, that might even be in my departments the marketing departments and texts and so on. So, yeah, it's been there for a while and we use it.
Speaker 1Yeah, absolutely, and you're not spruiking it or selling it as if it's something that's just been invented. No, yeah, absolutely, and you're not spruiking it or selling it as if it's something that's just been invented.
Speaker 2No, no, no, it's a tool.
Speaker 1It's a tool, yeah, up there with excellent service quality. Last question we talk a lot about the challenges to the European PCV industry, a lot of conversations back and forward with Brussels. Do you feel that's going in the right direction? But, more importantly, do you feel like it's going fast enough?
European Union Industry Strategy Discussion
Speaker 2well, um, I'm not a very patient man, so for me it's always too slow, but I think in what you feel, what's going on now with respect to the talks we have in Europe by the way, ipc is doing a wonderful job there but there are a lot of us that support this and that are in this discussion with the people in Brussels working for the European Commission, and that is, philip, where you really need to be. I mean, these problems that are in front of us, that are ahead of us, no single country can solve that for itself. We talk about energy transition and all this stuff. One market, one single market, one single market for workers, you name it. All these things can only be solved on a European level. Every single country is too small to deal with China, too small to deal with America. I mean, we need the European Union. And on top of that, I feel that if you speak to the people in Russia that work for the Commission, they are of a very high level.
Speaker 2I sometimes have the feeling that the smartest people in Europe are there and not in our local countries, and that is a good thing, because the solution definitely needs to come from them. And when I then see, when we started almost two years ago with these talks, then the minds are changing and even from local politicians that you talk to, they understand that we need to have a strategy for the industry I would almost say, industry first. Without industry, there is no general local value chain and there is no money to pay for social security, there is no money to pay for streets, for whatever we need and whatever the citizens every day enjoy in our Western life. So we need industry and that is changing and this needs to, yeah, I would say, influence everything we do. For instance, if I think about education, we have not enough people that learn technical professions.
Speaker 2When I finished my study almost 40 years ago, we had a lack only in Flanders 10,000 engineers. Today it's even more so we're still not going forward. In Germany, it's the same thing. Every year we lose about 6,000 people working in electronics. We need more, we don't need less. So, yes, we need that to influence everybody, and that is gradually changing. Lately we had a lot of visits and talks with people that are working for the Commission, but also for the European Presidency, and they assured us that even the people they work for are really influenced by this thought that we need to do something for the industry. I also see it in the Budapest Declaration. It comes forward everywhere, but we need to keep on hitting the same nail.
Speaker 1Yeah, and that's the only way and it's important to take that ecosystem. Two things I don't believe it was 40 years ago, when you were still 20 years at the most. Thank you for the work you're doing with IPC to support their efforts. I think it's really important that they get industry supporting them Absolutely and they can be the conduit to get that message through to Brussels.
Speaker 2Thank you for your time today. You're welcome, philip, my pleasure.