MADE IN EUROPE POD Episode #1 with Bo Lybaek and Markus Aschenbrenner (recorded April 8th, 2025)

NOTE: This show was recorded on April 8th, days after President Trump's "Liberation Day" Tariffs had been announced, but before a 90 day pause was applied to those same reciprocal tariffs, apart from those on China. The comments and opinions reflect this point in time.

Sweeping tariffs, supply chain disruptions, and geopolitical tensions have manufacturers worldwide questioning their next move. What happens when no one can predict tomorrow's trade landscape? 

In this premiere episode of MADE IN EUROPE, an IPC Podcast, host Philip Stoten dives deep with Bo Lybaek of GPV Group A/S and Markus Aschenbrenner of Zollner Elektronik AG into the challenges facing EMS companies and their customers as they navigate the unpredictable waters of global trade tensions. Far from just reacting to headlines, these industry leaders reveal their strategic approaches to uncertainty.

"Most important thing is to stay calm, follow what is happening, and be agile when needed," shares Bo Lybaek, capturing the measured response many manufacturers are taking while awaiting clarity. Yet beneath this wait-and-see approach lies sophisticated preparation – from comprehensive supply chain data modeling to strategic global footprint development that has been years in the making and continues to be an imperative.

The conversation reveals how current disruptions are accelerating an existing trend toward "region for region" manufacturing – a localized approach that provides greater resilience against cross-border complications. Both Bo and Markus offer fascinating insights into how they've built truly global operations that maintain agility through shared equipment platforms, standardized processes, and most importantly, consistent corporate culture.

Perhaps most compelling is their perspective on Europe's position in this changing landscape. As Markus Aschenbrenner notes, "We need a strong European Union with real value for others to negotiate with." This includes not just the recently announced infrastructure investments, but critically, reducing bureaucracy that hinders competitiveness.

Join us for this thought-provoking discussion that goes beyond tariff headlines to explore how leading manufacturers are building resilience in uncertain times. Subscribe to MADE IN EUROPE now to hear more insights from European manufacturing leaders in future episodes.

MADE IN EUROPE is an IPC podcast, produced by SCOOP and hosted by Philip Stoten. Learn more about the IPC and their activities in Europe at https://www.ipc.org/europe

EMS@C-Level is sponsored by global inspection leaders Koh Young (https://www.kohyoung.com) and Creative Electron (https://creativeelectron.com)

EMS@C-Level is hosted by global inspection leaders Koh Young (https://www.kohyoung.com) and Global Electronics Association (https://www.electronics.org)

You can see video versions of all of the EMS@C-Level pods on our YouTube playlist.

Transcript

Welcome to Made in Europe

Philip Stoten 0:01

Hello , I'm Philip Stoughton . Welcome to the inaugural episode of Made in Europe , an IPC podcast produced by Scoop . Communications . I'm delighted to have two guests on the first episode Bo Liebeck from GPV and Marcus Aschenbrenner from Zona , two gentlemen that I've spoken to on numerous occasions individually , but I think this is the first time I've had the both of you on a panel , so I'm feeling quite pleased with myself about that . Gentlemen , thank you so much for joining me .

Markus Aschenbrenner 0:32

You're welcome .

Philip Stoten 0:33

You're welcome ,

Tariffs: The Elephant in the Room

Philip Stoten 0:35

thank you . The elephant in the room is tariffs . President Trump has announced sweeping tariffs . They've got everybody running around like headless chickens . I think we're in an environment where we really don't know what's going to happen next . We really don't know what's going to stick . How are you and your customers responding to this rapidly evolving story , bo ? Maybe we can start with you and give me a kind of you know ? Are people picking up the phone and saying , hey , bo , we need to move manufacturing here , we need to do this ? Or are they just saying what do we do next ?

Bo Lybaek 1:17

I think it's maybe still early days and I think this is still moving around . So we have just had a call with our guys this morning , early morning , and we said the most important thing that is to stay calm , it is to follow what is happening and then be agile when it is needed . Personally , I think it could just as well be that there will be a period of of , you would say , no decisions , because everyone will be waiting to see what is the actual outcome . What can we count on in in business ? You like to have stability , you like to know which playing field you're playing at , and you would also like to know that it's going to last for more than a month .

Philip Stoten 2:08

Yeah , yeah , and Marcus , it feels like it might not even last two or three days at the moment . We've seen so many changes with the tariffs on Mexico and Canada over the last month and these current tariffs seem to be very late , related to trade imbalances , um , so it's hard to see what the what the end game is . It . Is it the lack of certainty , the lack of visibility , that is , is the ?

Markus Aschenbrenner 2:34

biggest challenge . I just can agree what both said as a company , you need stability and and something that you can plan on , and that's definitely not the right times right now for exactly that stability . So , and that's , I think , what is happening right now , with all the announcement of the tariffs , you know everybody's looking , you know what the negotiations between the countries or the regions will look like , in order to see what is then the outcome . Finally and I'm just a few minutes ago we have to look until the dust settles . After those assessments , what will be then a kind of reliable outcome , because I'm pretty sure that this situation of instability will continue over the next period of time , because that's at least that's my observation . Uh , it's on the strategy which the , the us government is doing right now to keep that uncertainty going on in order to be in a good position for negotiations .

Markus Aschenbrenner 3:34

That's at least it looks like , but what that means is that that decisions won't be made . There's a lot of investigations going on . What does that mean in terms of my products , in terms of my market , in terms of where do I need to place manufacturing in order to have a good state , or different markets for different regions ? I think those discussions are going on and there's questions asked also from our customers to us right now , but nobody will take a decision until that last is doing and that there's a kind of certain that you can really base on or have a basis for those decisions . And that's the status right now .

Markus Aschenbrenner 4:15

Yeah , we company is is really is really to look into the more details . So what kind of data do we need to have in order to answer the customer's questions as proper as we can ? Because it's not just to have the country or region of the components available . You need to have the smells available and all that kind of stuff that you can really advise or give more clarity for customers in terms of what do those tariffs exactly need for your product and what might be the best supply chain solution for this product , for that market . And this is where we are preparing ourselves for .

Philip Stoten 4:56

Yeah , and when you think about that , markus , is it a question of having kind of the right supply chain modeling , the right kind of data available ? Can you look at a bill of materials and say , based on this set of tariffs , this is going to be the outcome , or is there a lot of complex calculations that could change in 24 hours ?

Markus Aschenbrenner 5:19

It's all about data first of all having those data available not just for the first step of the supply chain , but throughout the supply chain , but throughout the supply chain if possible . And the second thing is that these have been the announcement they made . I'm pretty sure that their own customs departments don't know exactly how they evaluate exactly the parts coming into the US right now . So what ? I'm expecting ? At least that we will have a huge delay in customs in the americas for the next period of time , because the customs offices , they , they just don't know what the announcements that trump made or the administration made does really concrete mean for the customer experience department . So I think we will have a hiccup there .

Philip Stoten 6:06

First of all , yeah , but when you look at it and you compare it with the disruptions of covid , where they um , and post covid , where the supply chain guys were , were the superheroes of our business and they were rushing around doing complex things , did they build up muscle that makes them more prepared for this or is ? Is it just such a complex disruption it's hard to manage .

Bo Lybaek 6:34

I think it's hard to manage , because and I think our people think it's hard to manage , because what is it actually that we are dealing with ? Of course , at the beginning , if you were making the comparison with the pandemic , at that point in time we also did not know that . But there are still so many not answered questions and you , markus , you pointed out one , that is , how is the cost of clearance S going to take place ? But there is a number of other missing answers , I think . So how is it exactly going to be applied to which kind of custom codes , et cetera , et cetera . So we can only say we follow it very closely , we try to be very close to our customers and try to support them .

Bo Lybaek 7:29

We have also started to get a number of answers , but I think also , the underlying is that decisions are not made right today , and I unfortunately think that there could be a decision vacuum because we'll have to wait a certain period of time until there's more clarity . But , that said , I think it is actually also important that we at least that's my take right now this is something between the US and the rest of the world , and the rest of our business is actually continuing as is so I think that's also important to remember . Of course , I fully understand that if things are starting to go down , then we'll feel that around the globe , but right now things within the EU , between the EU and Asia , is going on as yesterday .

Philip Stoten 8:32

As it was before ? Yeah , no , it's absolutely . I mean , that's fascinating and one of the things I wanted to ask , because last time we spoke was November at Electronica . Since then we obviously had the results of the election , so we had some predictability there . Then there was a knowledge or a kind of an understanding that we were going to see tariffs and a result of people trying to pull business forward , or was it pretty much as you were expecting in the lead up to these tariff announcements ? Either of you can take that one If you're asking me .

Bo Lybaek 9:25

I cannot see that . We have seen that , except when I look at our Mexico facility , where you can say we have been in a roller coaster situation where it was going from invincible 25 to zero , or from zero to 25 to zero , back to zero , or from zero to 25 to zero , back to zero . So other than that I cannot see that we've had any and actually also not all . The intake in Mexico did not stop , but new business , rfqs . There has been a pausing .

Markus Aschenbrenner 10:02

Yeah , and that's not surprising , is it ?

Bo Lybaek 10:04

pausing . Yeah , and that's not surprising , is it ? So we expect that to resume now .

Philip Stoten 10:13

Yeah , it feels

Supply Chain Data and Decision-Making

Philip Stoten 10:14

like Mexico and Canada were perhaps the two winners out of the last set of announcements , but there's still , as Marcus said , there's still a lot of dust in the air and we have to wait for that to settle One of the big factors… .

Bo Lybaek 10:27

And Philip , I think it's important to say that Mexico is only zero if you are able to adhere to the USMCA agreement .

Philip Stoten 10:38

Yeah , and I think everybody's got their agreement out and they're reading it again and they're trying to work out what is impacted and not impacted by those regulations . Marcus , from a Zona point of view , you selected Costa Rica over Mexico . I didn't see Costa Rica on the list of tariffs . I guess they don't have a big trade imbalance there . Is that something that feels like it was a good decision right now , or is it too early to say on that as well ?

Markus Aschenbrenner 11:15

First of all , coming to your question about the order book , I fully agree to what Paul said . So the rest of the world is running , so we're talking about a US issue . Of course there will be an impact on the on the globe , on all the things going on right now , but you don't see it right now because that has due to the decisions not been made . Uh , and until that doesn't happen , there is , uh , there is no decisions on that and there is no , not what we see on the on the order book right now . But , uh , so our order book is is quite stable . It's a little bit increasing .

Markus Aschenbrenner 11:47

Last year was like as planned and we think that this year will be better than last year . So that's in a nutshell uh , what , what , what we see there , what the impact of the tariffs is , and the outcome is that's what we have to wait for and there might be , there might be an impact there . But to your question , because rick is this uh , rica has the 10% tariff that nearly every country in the world has right now , but no upmarks or something . In my opinion , costa Rica is flying under the radar of the US right now because the imbalance is not there or it's not that huge that it really appears . So , in terms of the decision we made already in 2014 , I think that was a good one . What we see is a lot of interest in our facility there right now . We are building a second building exactly right now , which will be finished by the end of the year , in order that we can utilize it in 26 . Because we see business going there absolutely .

Philip Stoten 12:54

Yeah , and from a global point of view , bo and Markus , I see you both continuing with those investment plans , continuing to build out that global footprint which is so fundamentally important to growing your business . Moving forward , you have to be in all those different regions and you have to have a solid footprint there , and I want to come back to that later because I'm really interested in how you do build a global footprint and how you actually leverage that global footprint to support your customers in these times . But one of the things I wanted to touch on was the fact that these tariffs and pretty much since President Trump walked into the White House , that there seems to be this increasing European-US tension and the kind of almost a renegotiating of the relationship between the two markets . Is that something that affects your business and affects your plans , or is that again something that is just creating a lot of noise that's perhaps slowing some decisions down , bo ? Maybe you'd like to give your thoughts on that ?

Bo Lybaek 14:05

first of all , down , bo maybe you'd like to give your thoughts on that . First of all , I think that it is obvious . We can all see that there is a certain dynamics in the political dynamics between US and Europe , but I don't think that that will change our actually strong relationship to US customers . I don't see why . I just had the opportunity to be in the US last week and they are just as unsecure or insecure as we are about what is happening . They also don't like this . They also don't like to be driving business in an unstable environment .

Bo Lybaek 14:52

So no , I think that we have all our interests in still being close to our US customers and will continue to develop that base . I don't see why not .

Philip Stoten 15:04

Yeah , markus , you feel the same way I don't see why not .

Markus Aschenbrenner 15:09

Yeah , markus , you feel the same way .

Markus Aschenbrenner 15:09

First of all , if I look at both customer base and our customer base , a lot of our customers are multinational operating companies and they anyhow have needs to serve different markets .

Markus Aschenbrenner 15:23

And what most of them are thinking right now or at least that's in discussion that we have with those customers is that they are really thinking of having localized their supply chain in order to serve the market closer , faster and be more reactive on the local needs which are there . And this is the long-term strategy that we are following as Solna , because we want to set up our production possibilities , the way that we can serve the markets directly within the markets . That's what we are looking for and that is heading GPB the same direction , because , as a contract manufacturer or EMS partner , that's exactly what you need to establish . You need to be in a position that you can serve your customer locally with the service level that you have . Anyhow , I think this is what our customer base is looking for . That long-term trend is supported , let's

Global Footprint and Regional Strategy

Markus Aschenbrenner 16:24

say , even if it's a bad situation , by what is trump doing right now yeah , yeah , and it's .

Philip Stoten 16:30

It's fascinating , isn't it ? It feels like that pendulum swing away from um globalization to a more regionalized . Regionalized model and a more regionalized model of supply chain is something that suits companies with a with footprint and , as you say , having your footprint reconciled with the markets that your customers are in . It's an essential way of serving them , and when I look at what you've been doing recently , bo , it's exactly the same . Boz Kielbasa .

Bo Lybaek 17:03

Yeah , and I can only fully . I have exactly the same opinion as what you have just been saying , Marcus , that this region for region will just move forward faster . I think , and if we're also looking at what has happened in many of our largest customers in the last years , they have also been decentralizing because they want also to be closer to customers . They want to be closer to customers in the different regions . So this is also supporting this region for region thinking . I don't like the background on which this is going to be accelerated , but I think it could be a very natural result of it .

Philip Stoten 17:48

Yeah , and it feels like that's a process that's been occurring for some time . Sorry , Markus , you were going to interject .

Markus Aschenbrenner 17:55

No , I didn't mean what Paul said . Yeah .

Philip Stoten 17:58

When I look at those footprints and I think of that global footprint , I think that's one thing being able to leverage that , and particularly being able to leverage that in a world where we are disrupted . And then I think , well , can we do that fast enough ? Can we move stuff from one region to another quickly ? Can we adjust capacity at different countries ? And are there key elements like strategic supplier relationships with particular equipment vendors or common equipment sets or common softwares ? Are there things that allow us to put and you mentioned the word agility , bo are there things that allow us to put agility as a layer on top of that global footprint that really drive that additional value to the customer ? Bo , you're kind of smiling there .

Markus Aschenbrenner 18:46

I don't think it's as . Is it a yes or a no ?

Bo Lybaek 18:49

I don't think it's as easy as a yes or a no , it's not easy .

Bo Lybaek 18:52

Because I think agility comes in many directions . So agility is also that you comprehend the situation , for instance , this about the tariffs and how they are evolving fast , so that you're able to support your customers with proper , with good , consolidated , well-thought-through information and argues . Something else is when you're building a factory . At least , I have a hard time to see that we are able to build factories for the month of May and then we build somewhere else for the month of June . We are not able to do that and I think it will take some time until we're able to be that agile .

Bo Lybaek 19:38

But of course , the advantage in the EMS industry is that the equipment that we have is relatively easy to move around . We have a clear , defined and I'm sure that Solna also have a clear , defined key brand list of equipment . So it's known in all our sites . We can , of course , move equipment around . Competences you can also move around to a certain extent , even though that is more difficult . But I think that the vast , vast majority of our products we cannot just move around without the consent of our customers . Yeah , so they have to be involved in this .

Philip Stoten 20:26

Yeah , and it's that reapproval of lines , but I think you know you getting ahead of it and they get them getting ahead of it . The common equipment set , I think , is really valuable and I've seen that you know in both of your businesses , in multiple facilities , that when you have particularly when you've done a greenfield site , you've been able to do that and you know the software overlap and I think all that creates agility . You spoke about talent , marcus . There's also a cultural thing , isn't there , where you have a common culture across the business and everybody everywhere understands the way you do things and you know the importance of being customer obsessed and you know delivering regardless of where you are in the world . That's an important part of building an agile EMS global footprint , no matter how many thousands of people you have .

Markus Aschenbrenner 21:18

Important topic , phil and I think we had that in one of our last discussions at Electronica to have . First of all , you need to build a baseline and what you've all described is absolutely a baseline to have a common of all . You need to build a baseline and what we all describe is absolutely a baseline to have a common set of machine vendors that you use , processes which are like in order that you're able to move products around , with then having , of course , the approval of your customer . That's a baseline

Building Agility Through People and Culture

Markus Aschenbrenner 21:42

With a growing company and having that same spirit each and everywhere , the same culture each and everywhere . We do acquisitions and you know that we did acquisitions in the past in order to be faster in some certain markets in the US and Thailand .

Markus Aschenbrenner 21:59

The selection of those acquisition targets is for me a very important topic , because what we try to do is in order to have that the corporate identity and spirit also there is that we acquired family-owned companies . We are also family-owned company with the size , but we acquired family-owned company having the same fundamental spirit there , which makes it easier to integrate them into our big group and and of course , a lot of our doing is really also with the management circles . We have that spirit . That's the homegrown spirit that we have here in our in in , so now also in all our subsidiaries around the globe , and that's an ongoing thing which is essential .

Markus Aschenbrenner 22:45

Yeah , so agility in terms of speed and also , if you want to be agile far away from corporate , there has to be decisions made locally . Yeah , and having the same cultural setup , it's easier for those managers to make the right decisions yeah , and to have that and autonomy , which I think is essential .

Philip Stoten 23:06

But when I look at your travel schedule , I think you're out there flying the gpv culture flag constantly and you're you're out there disseminating this , this kind of ideal of how gpv looks , not just to the market , but you know how gpv behaves in what in every region and how it behaves towards the customer .

Bo Lybaek 23:26

Yeah , I can only say what Marcus is saying . I think that is what you , marcus , and what Tona has been doing so well over many , many years , and our mantra , that is , these results are created by people and we strongly believe that the people in our business , they are actually the most important element . We can buy a machine , we can build a new house , we can say we want to do this and that with our customers , but it requires that we have people interested people , motivated people , diligently doing this with great proudness .

Philip Stoten 24:10

Yeah , yeah , that pride and that culture that I see in both of your businesses , I think is absolutely fundamental to your success , and it becomes even more important when things are disrupted and things are challenged . You know you need those people that really understand the culture and can make those decisions . As Marcus said , locally , that earned autonomy within the business is hugely important . I'm conscious that we've only got a few minutes left , so I wanted to touch on the European market and what's happened recently

Europe's Position and Future Outlook

Philip Stoten 24:40

. I think , as a result of some of the relationship challenges , europe's kind of really stepped up , decided to spend a bit more money on defense . The German government announced close to 1 trillion in expenditure , I think half on defense and half on infrastructure . Are those things that you feel bolstering the local market in Europe ? Do you feel better about your European business than you perhaps did in November when we met in Munich , markus ? What do you think ? Do you feel better ? You're smiling .

Markus Aschenbrenner 25:19

Yeah , because , first of all , what I hope will be one of the outcomes of the political situation that we see right now is that we want to really be um seen as a partner on the same level for the us and also for for china . It there needs to be a strong european union with , with a really a value for the others to negotiate with and to have a kind of same same side , um , to have kind of the same side .

Markus Aschenbrenner 26:09

The second thing that you're mentioning the money which is there right now in the European Union which is spent in military and infrastructure from a German perspective , it's very important to have those infrastructure investments to be done , because we're lagging behind in the meantime and there definitely needs to be something to be done because we're lacking behind in the meantime and there definitely needs to be something , something to be done there .

Markus Aschenbrenner 26:31

But it's not just making those investments . It's for me also very important , or even at the same level , is to bring bureaucracy down , very important topic in europe and in germany . We , the last five years in the European Union , we went the direction of having everything controlled , reported to an extent which is really hindering business in the meantime , and this needs to be also focused on and brought back to a level which helps the European manufacturing industry or companies being really competitive on a global point of view . That's the most important topic and certainly those investments done in infrastructure and military will help to boost the economy in Europe . There is no doubt about that . But there has also been some other political decisions being made . Otherwise it's not enough's not enough to do that . That's not all of it . There's really a portion which has to come along with that .

Philip Stoten 27:35

Yeah , Otherwise it's just a short-term gain . Bo , I saw you nodding a lot there . I think you feel Marxist pain with respect to red tape and bureaucracy . It comes back to that word that we've mentioned several times , and that's agility . Europe as a body needs to move faster and be a little bit more agile in the way it does things . Anything you'd like to add there ?

Bo Lybaek 27:58

Yeah , maybe a comment . I really sincerely hope that and I think I also start to sense a lot more optimism in Germany around this , what has happened around the new government , and I really hope that that will mature even further , because for Europe we need that . Germany is the biggest single market . Of course , the other big countries are also important in driving the way forward and I think it's quite interesting to see how the UK have stepped into the scene on certain topics . So maybe all these challenges is also uniting us even further . I think we are coming from a small country , denmark . We certainly need because we need the EU , we need open markets . We are a small , open economy , but we cannot pave the road as the big countries can .

Philip Stoten 29:04

Yeah , I think it's essential road as the big countries can . Yeah , yeah , no , I think it's essential and I think having having a bit more european pride and having a europe that that is moving a bit faster is you know , we're we're all europeans here so we can say that . But I think having having something that feels agile and feels very together is really what that the whole european union thing , you thing way back to the 1970s , was all about , and I think that's the essence of it .

Bo Lybaek 29:29

I just want to touch on one more .

Philip Stoten 29:31

Sorry , go ahead .

Bo Lybaek 29:32

Yeah , and because you just triggered me by saying that we should maybe be proud of Europe , and I think that is actually a quite important thing , and being proud of Europe , that is not the same as everything is as it should be , but

Closing Thoughts and Goodbyes

Bo Lybaek 29:49

I think we have some fundamental good things and we should use that as a leverage to take care of some of the things you mentioned , markus . The bureaucracy take care of the things , which is not so good .

Philip Stoten 30:03

Yeah , yeah yeah , yeah , I think you're absolutely right . Europe has some beautifully diverse talent and wonderful cultures and you know , it's kind of what makes it the wonderful place that it is . But when it's all working together and moving in the same direction , there's a lot more value . There isn't . There's absolutely a lot more value . Exciting times ahead . Let's see how that dust settles , let's see what it all looks like next , next , but , gentlemen , thank you so much for spending time with me this evening , um , and we'll talk again soon . Thank you welcome , thank you very much .